Claris, I am a rank beginner when it comes to actual MA training. In fact, you can't call someone a beginner if they've never begun. I've had some theatrical sword training and hung out with the stunt fighters on the movies I've worked on, but actually stepping into a school is very intimidating. Maybe I'll come watch first. Wolf, eat hearty, just watch out for the sushi they catch out of the Mad River. It's good, but an hour later you're thirsty, and there's only one drink that's gonna cut it. Take care. Happy Holidays, all. If I was back home in the cold north east, I'd be dancing through the snowy, moonlit forest on winter solstice, but palm trees just aren't the same. Those gods do not hold sway here. I'll have to wait 'til Chinese New Year. That's big here. Gong hay fat choy!

Drew, did you ever find a copy of Cats Laughing, Another Way to Travel? I found a copy of it this weekend and would be willing to tape it for you if it's not available anywhere else. E-mail me and let me know! Cammie

Drew, did you ever find a copy of Cats Laughing, Another Way to Travel? I found a copy of it this weekend and would be willing to tape it for you if it's not available anywhere else. E-mail me and let me know! Cammie

Oh, by all means, NRL, come watch, and anyone else too. We'll put on a nice show for you...after you watch the repertion training and can consider for a bit whether or not you could manage doing it three times on your first night. Gets rid of the Hill slummers, no? And may I mention my school's truce ground...there'll be no trouble on my floors. However, we are located at an auspicious conjunction of feng shui Dragon Lines, and I anticipate no trouble (or, is that 'cause of the swords and deerhorrn knives on the wall?). At any rate, I'm off to search for a copy of _Life on the Border_ (another copy, that is)...*bow* See you later, all!

NRL, never had the pleasure of a bean moon pie. (She rubs her tattoed chin with her index finger and her brow furrows above the sunglasses.) But I have had one of those yellow spongy things and they were gross. Similar at all? If not, I'll have to stop by, or get a recipe, if you wouldn't like anyone to see me near your squat. I love Jackie Chan, they show his flicks at the Lantern occassionally. John Woo is another favorite of mine. And I am always up for tea!!! Oolong, darjeeling, Earl grey, love 'em all except when they enter fruity domains. I understand about the violence, I always feel distraught when I see it, and guilty when pushed into it. Tennekoi, Jingle-girl, you sure that's the real Lankin you're talking about, he doesn't seem the type to get hitched, you lose all those political angles... Then again, he might be trying to change his image. But a vampire? Kinda defeats the purpose. Good luck with your kwoon Claris.

Well, all.. it's 5 o'clock am for me.. I got Finder in the mail yesterday, and I've sat here all day and all night reading it. It's early, and this probably won't make much sense.. if it doesn't, just ignore it and go on with life.. I'm upset and I find myself crying my eyes out for the Ticker.. That may sound stupid or crazy or whatnot, but it is. It happens. That is part of my curse that sent me to the border in the first place, that abstract concept called caring. I find that my favorite authors, the ones who really seem to be *good* or who really seem to understand, are always able to evoke an emotion from me, whether it be compassion, pain, sadness, or anger. I don't even think I have a point to this post, other than the fact that I'm upset, and I have to vent.. and seeing as how this is the only B-town support group I have, I suppose you'll have to suffer. I suppose that that is part of the magic (or curse) of the border.. You get so entangled in it that you can't help but be a part of it. You can't help but care what happens... and you can't help but understand it, because what they write is what we live, and they are as much a part of us as we are of them. Don't ever let anyone tell you the border is a fictional place that doesn't exist (I'm sure most of you feel that already) but I know now, as I knew when I picked up Elsewhere for the first time, that it was a very real place to me. A place with people I knew and cared for, who had lives and problems similar to my own.. a place where I fit in. If it wasn't real, then I wouldn't be crying right now. I wouldn't get mad at the injustices. Right now, more than anything I feel like I live in my own Border, making it up as I go, and to quote the Dead Milkmen, "I walk the thinnest line between the light and dark sides of my mind," and I can't help but think of the people who saw fit to understand, and to create out of nothing, a haven for people like me. I want to thank them all from the bottom of my heart, small reward that that is.. *sigh* I think that's about all the venting I can handle for the moment.. Look at this as my own insanity if you will, and I'm sorry. I guess this is what my best friend meant when he said, "Write about it. Write about the world that made you what you are. Show them exactly what they did to you." anyways.. I think I could go for a really good cup of coffee right now, along with some huevos rancheros.. thanks in advance for the opportunity to let my feelings run rampant with my fingers.. p.s. Sorry for being so long..

"All poets, all the bards and artists, all the musicians who truly take the music into their hearts ... have their own glamour. They all straddle the border of Faerie, and they see into both worlds. Not dependably into either, perhaps, but that uncertainty keeps them honest and at a distance." TechWolf, your message brought that passage from War To The Oaks instantly to my mind. I can't say it better, but I'd like to add that anything that truly makes us feel alive ... how can it possibly be fake just because not everyone can see it? Cammie

Glenys steps out from behind the character, Angel, and places a cup of Assam tea in front of the person beside Techwolf (that's you!) and a finger of rich, scottish shortbread on the saucer...... That's the china my father brought back from Vietnam, pardon it being white if you cleave to gypsy beliefs. I just wanted you to know I feel for you, 'cause in those stories she was the best, most 'alive' creature, I think Will and Emma ever gave birth to.

Who the heck is Cats Laughing or Laughing Cats!I like the Smashing Pumpkins personally!

Even though it's been awhile since I read the book, I feel the same way, TechWolf. If you can't find any coffee in this crazy town, c'mon over and I'll share my stash with you. The Ticker's death was a shock to us all, and the pain is still there. It doesn't go away, it just becomes a part of you. The saddest part is that no one in her family could understand her until after she was gone.

Ghost,remember you told me about that Stick guy?Who is he?

How do you get to that Rydin place on AOL?

Angel, red bean moon cake is a disk of sweet red bean paste wrapped in a thin pastry crust about the size and weight! of a hockey puck. Very good, but it'll get you in the end, if you know what I mean. Techwolf, do not appologize for emotion. It's the emotionless monsters that have made the world the hell that it is and sent us all searching for Bordertown. Your post has come closest to getting at why we're all here. Why we all love the books. Let the old man tell you a story... I was 17 in 1979. Me and a few of my friends were the first punk rockers in my little east coast town. Now, being a punk rocker seems to have meant different things depending where you were. Huntington Beach punks by all acounts lived for fighting and beer. I was not this kind of punk. For me it had little to do with violence or substance abuse. For me it was a movement where the seeming polar opposites of "tough" and "intellegent," "cool" and "open minded," and "male" and "female" could all come together in a jumble of black leather, eye-liner and incredible music. We proposed a world where men and women could leave the armed camps of "masculinity" and "femininity" and meet as friends in the middle. We beleived passionately in DIY and androgyny and looking hard but being heroes and being true to your friends and your ideals and never selling out, and we were beaten and ridiculed severely for it. I formed my philosophy of life in those years. I'm 34 now, and as foolish and naive as it all was, I still beleive! ... So, when I read the Border Town books for the first time, although they were about a place that never existed, the strongest feeling I had was one of nostalgia. It reminded me of what I felt back then. Of tramping around my home town with my punk rock friends, talking about a wild world where you could look like you wanted without getting killed for it, and finding secret places that were ours alone. Bordertown is my home. I lived there once. And it wasn't my hometown, but the friends I had there. Greta cutting my hair all spiky in her kitchen with mugs of tea and McVities biscuts all around, running from the rednecks, boot-dancing so hard at a party at Joe's house to Killing Joke's Follow the Leader that the floorboards bounced like a trampoline, long talks about the ideals of spartan living and nobility in reduced circumstances, alright, enough old timer.... Well, I live in LA now and nobody knows what I'm talking about, so when I need to remember, when I need to go back and drink from the well of my ideals again, I read the books. I cried my eyes out when Ticker died too, Wolf, and thanked Emma Bull for the privelige, because it let me know I hadn't frozen up, they hadn't killed me. I can still feel. ... Sorry, another long one from me, but the Wolf deserved a responce and a thank you. G'night all. Be true. Be strong. Be brave. Work hard.

I don't know, NRL, how you and Tech can sit there and make me want to cry! (I'm grinning thru the couple tears). But you are so right! B'Town came for me in my freshman year at highschool, a time when my brother almost broke my neck and covered me in bruises every day (sorry to extend this into a sob story, please forgive!!! I'm not the only one), my parents were getting divorced, I was considered one withthe league of Highschool out castes, and I could do nothing against the abuse but hang my head and write until my fingers were numb, or read every book I could get my hands on. I had one friend and she loaned me that fateful library book... I was hooked, I wrote stories, I ran B'Town games for that one friend, I tried to draw the characters (I sucked back then, I have some great pieces now). Being alone is never a big deal, but loneliness will eat out your heart. I think B'Town was a true and rare bit of honesty about life, and when anybody sees that when they crave it, it means more than anybody could ever know! I bet everybody here would cringe at the mention of 'stripped' books, especially on this Board. I remember trying to scrounge money to but the books at a comic store in Kansas City (pretty pathetic when a highschool student had to scrounge up six lousy dollars >grin<). I finally got the cash, got up there and they were gone, they couldn't sell them, they were stripped and thrown away. These crazy questions flooded out of my brain. When do they pick up the trash? Considering the part of town, would I find a corpse laying on top of the books? Why didn't you give the books to charity? Insert mental image of grabbing clerk and screaming 'What were you thinking?'. I'm not such a psychopath now, but it was like somebody had thrown away my only friend because nobody liked her... Nowadays, I am me, people don't bother me when they don't like my 'trendy' plum hair, or my wideleg jeans, or my green ginham coat and my 'fish scale' crocheted hat from the 30's, or the books I'm eternally hauling around, or the pacifistic/nihilistic crap that is always pouring out of my mouth. If B'Town taught me anything, it's that I am myself, clothes shouldn't label ANYONE, conforming to other people's standards is wrong in every case if yours are different! Be you, like the music you like, read the books you like, and don't feel like you need to make an excuse. The fact that you like it is enuf! This rambling public service announcement provided by the people over at Paper Angel Inc. <-- see, I have to make fun becuz I am still scared to say these things. It is never easy to bare your soul. Thank you Techie and NRL for having the courage and trust to do so! I'm getting off the soap box, if anybody needs it I'll leave it in the corner.

Froggy, Stick is a big scary guy who keeps the peace in B'Town. Do not mess with him, or he will box your ears. But then, I guess amphibians don't *have* ears, do they? Just stay away from the big scary man with the dreads and you'll be fine. (Angel is heard to murmur in a songish tone: 'He'll be ridin' a fat boy Harley when he comes' to the tune of that old When She Comes Around the Mountain ditty)

TechWolf -- I know. Trite words, but I know exactly whatcha mean. Wanna piece o' chocolate? Dark. :) The best for blue funks. As for the moon pies -- I have but one word for that. GIMME! Hey, I'm little (5'2.5")but I've got this real fast metabolism, y'see... ;) If it's Asian food and nonspicy and not too outre, I'll probably eat it....that's what happens when you're Asian and raised on the stuff. Grows hair on yer chest, doncha know. Been lurking for a while now... I'm Asian by birth, B-town by adoption, and I'm known to be pretty scattered sometimes so be patient, yes? :) Oh yeah... I'm deaf, but I still enjoy listening to music -- mostly classical. :) (Still wish someone would describe to me what B-town music is supposed to be like... please? :) )

hey all! ... i know, i've been away for a while... and reading the posts, it seems i've missed a great deal! yes, it's still the same ol' flik here (different email add. now--old one still works, too, tho!)... still wondering if anyone would trade me a scanner for my ears..... sigh... so you say terri windling and ellen k. and delia s. wanna talk to us? way kewl. i'd love to know when, although if it's really going to be on the 23rd, i won't be able to make it-- catching a train to go visit home for the holidays.......too bad those trips always take so long! Out Of Character:seriously, tho, when we (jingle, rave, me and a bunch of other people) decided we wanted to do the horn dance for conventions, we wrote terri windling and asked her. she wrote us back saying it would be fine.... so maybe fanfic would be ok?...there's LOTS of sites out there with fanfic for other stuff...just a thought! Back In Character:so like i was saying, goin' back to b-town for a little while. visit the family, get away from computers for a while (elves and technology? i never woulda believed it until i started playin' with 'em!! but now, well, i kinda like technology... :)) so anyway, us horn dancers are throwin' a party contest in march... at coast con! we'd love to see ya'll all there... come help us show these worlders how to party, ok?! it'd be awesome kewl if everybody could come..... see ya later! ...i hear a fire calling my name to be lit......... flik

Well, I guess I'd better go get that soapbox out of the corner, cuz I've gotta rant a little about some of the things said in the last few posts. First, the punk rock thing. Punks today aren't just the generic, look-alike straight edge kids or the permanently stoned wastes of flesh who just wanna piss people off. I don't care what MTV says, they know jack about punk. Second; Angel, don't apologize. We're here for you and we care. I went through something similar and know what it's like to feel you have no one to turn to or talk to. I'm glad you made it through and can talk about it so openly, I haven't your courage. And the stripped books, don't worry. Probably half of my library is of stripped books, God only knows how I'd get anything to read without them. One tip, make friends with people who work at bokstores. Some of my friends regularly save books from the dumpster for me and they sometimes thank me for saving these books from it. Can you imagine all the wasted stories and trees this practice generates? Well, I guess I'd better put the soapbox back in the corner. Can't have the place getting all messy, now can we?

(Angel is seen taking the soapbox out after ghost's turn. She pats it with a familiar smile and stands atop it. She waves and smiles at ghost) Ah, punk, if only the kids today were like NRL was yesterday. I just want the box to say this, though, there a lot of kids out there (sheesh, I'm 22, am I an adult?) who like the Sex Pistols who aren't 'complete bastards'. Of course, if they aren't listening to the Damned, they are missing out on the better punk band. Thank you ghost! I'm here for you too, and the guy who really needed it most recently, Techwolf! Just what is a techwolf? (Angel steps of the soap box) Hey, TLO, B'Town music is pretty varied, but heavily influenced by World Beat. I think the closest band to classical that I could reccomend is Dead Can Dance. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L! (I was doing a websearch the other day and found a page called The Dancing Ferret which talked about 'fey' music. Will Shetterly had some stuff to say there) Nice to finally meet the flik.

Ghost. Angel. I must have come off like an old crumudgeon. I don't think the punks of yore had anything on the punks of today. In fact, reading about the old days now, you realize that there were a lot of not so noble people involved. The west coast scene was drunken brawlers, the new york scene was decadent junkies, and the brits, if John Lydon is to be believed, were only in it for the money. But that doesn't matter. It was my own perception of what punk was about, and what it made me into that counts. Most of the punks of my day did exactly what the hippies did before that. They sold out. Gave up the life and got a McJob, a McHouse and a McSpouse. So it brings a thrill to my heart every time I see a kid half my age that still believes and is doing it for the music and the ideals and energy and not just because MTV told her or him it was hip this week. Whatever it is you like, it's cool as long as you Do It Yourself! Make your own fun. Don't buy it pre-digested. Here endeth the lesson. Jeez, the old soap box is gettin' mighty thin. Must be because we're always getting into a lather. Sorry sorry. It just slipped out. G'night.

Hrmm.. Wow, I didn't think I'd stir all this up.. but then again, maybe we needed to be brought out of our stagnancy.. :) Angel, I'll explain. (It's all in my first fic, and as soon as we get the permission, *IF* we get the permission, all will be explained.) Anyways, it started out back in the world, back in school as a young punk kid, who, being a freshman, also happened to be the youngest kid at school with a full beard and moustache.. talk about your hormones gone wild! I was dubbed "Wolfman" by my "friends" and it stuck.. I used it for quite a while until I found out that Wolfman was pretty common.. it was everywhere. So I decided to find a unique name all my own. TechWolf is a contraction involving technology and wolf. shortened to TechWolf. I was always a wiz with electronics, computers, you name it, hence "Tech" and a loner, cunning, solitary, etc.. hence wolf. Put the two together and you get me. :) Basically, by say.. 1983 standards I'd be what is known as a "hacker." keep in mind that's '83 standards cuz the word means a lot different today.. NRL, I can relate.. time for the "young'un" to tell a story.. Here in my town, a punk band called FEAR gave a concert and I was invited to go by one of my "punk" friends. It was probably one of the scariest things I did. Everyone else was there in leather, spikes, colored hair, you name it, the whole spiel. I was there in a t-shirt and jean shorts.. So I was looking mightily out of place.. I ended up talking to another "old-school" punk and we were discussing the ideals and such, just as you were, and we figured out that because we two (she was in jeans and a flannel) were the only ones there who hadn't conformed to the "standards" of punk, that we were the "punkest" ones there. Just because we wore what we felt like wearing, and didn't give a darn what anyone else thought.. It was an interesting thought, because the standards and ideals were flipped that night.. also, NRL, if after all that, passing through youth, and being able to hang on to yourself, and having not sold out, I'd have to disagree with you being an "old crumudgeon." It's the ones who have sold out who are. TLO thanks for the offer, but, sorry. Like umm.. shoot.. can't think of the name.. the guy who runs the dojo with Laura.. I don't like chocolate.. It's times like this that I really feel that we've come together, and this is when the border really starts to exist. I'm beginning to think that that's exactly what the border is, and why it exists. look at us.. We've all got that common bond of having the ideals and such. Thank you all for the kind words. It's hard when something like that dies.. (I've gone through too many recent deaths..) and it's nice knowing that people out there really do understand, and that I'm not the only one, and that there are people who will read my long rants.. :) I don't know what it is, but I always get this feeling early in the morning.. (or late in the evening, however you choose to think of it.. it's just DARK out..) When I really feel "connected" to the world, and that I have something important to say, but I don't know how to say it. So I write. The writing makes me feel like I'm scraping away at layers of paint on something, and that if I keep writing, eventually I'll scrape everything away and have the true forms and ideas finally free. I always seem to get "deep" at this time of night, and it's when I do the best writing.. also, going waaaaaay back to Angel's earlier post, I have an interesting thing about this whole "in-character" / "out of character" thing.. You see, I am the TechWolf, Scott McCoy. It's not a "character" I wrote who came into being, it's just me. I wrote about myself, so in a way, he is a character in the stories, but that character is *me*. I am never "in-character" or "out".. I'm just here. :) I write about real life and the stories the same way, because to me, it's all the same. It's all life. No sense in separating the two. Cammie, I agree. As I always say, if it's enough to evoke an emotion, it's good and it's real. That's my main thing. I hate fakes, and I hate phoneyness. We are what we are, and that's it. Take it or leave it. And personally, I think it's what we have upstairs and in our hearts that counts, and not how we dress, or what we wear. I mean, we all make our own statements in fashion. I mean, right now I'm wearing combat boots, camo pants, grey t-shirt, faded green vest, and my trademark black trenchcoat. That's just my personal style. I haven't emulated anyone (that I know of) and I wear it because I think it looks good, it's comfortable, and I like it. I'm always seen with my boy scout canvas backpack filled with books and binders, because I can't seem to be without the printed word. Let's face it: bottom line is, the books are good. After reading Elsewhere, I went out and bought a Yeats collection, because the poems quoted in Elsewhere sounded so beautiful. I'd always been a "romantic" as the teachers of literature call it, and it just made so much sense.. I took an english lit course this semester at the U without Floors, and we covered things like Keats, Yeats, Blake, Wordsworth, Shelley.. THe greats. I loved it when we did "The Tyger" wow.. I can't believe I've been rambling on and on this long.. I don't even remember what the point of this was or if there was, except maybe to say thanks, guys.. :) and on that note, I'll leave you guys with my all-time favorite quote that seems to apply: "Beauty is truth, truth beauty. That is all ye know of life and all ye need to know." -- John Keats, "On a Grecian Urn"

'Kay, Tech, you've got the longest post yet. Ah, first things, your welcome and thank you! After reading all that two things come to mind. NRL, you aren't an old curmudgeon!!! You are, however, in possession of that rare gift of intelligence and wit! Techie, I must say the same to you and Cammie. It is funny to read how you feel about the punk scene, because (I'm a baby) though I was only five in '79 I know so much about it now. I was more interested in the Gothic scene though. Loved the Sisters of Mercy, Alien Sex Fiend, Siouxsie (they broke up! waaah!)... Listen to me spout like I'm trying to sound out a pedigree >grinning<. About that show you went to, I managed to see My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult about a year ago and that was stopped me from going to high energy shows. It was in a college town, Lawrence, KS. Most the kids were all 'dolled up' in their black clothes and lipstick, you get the picture, piercing no-no's left and right ( Ilike peircings but let's be artistic about it! No brass rings that turn your body green, it isn't hygenic!). At any rate, I got there with a friend two hours early so I could actually grip the stage and then told my friend that I would kill him if he ruined this for me by getting into a fight. That show meant a LOT to me. Poor bastard... During the second song some messed guy leaned against him and wet them both. People behind him hit and shoved him, I wasn't aware because he was shielding me from it. Well, I noticed somebody shoving me from the left. Some tiny girl with green lipstick was getting thrown into me but some gothed out bimbo. I got so angry, blindly, that I began to raise my fist to pummel that goth-girl. My better nature curbed me, so I pulled the tiny girl to my right so the Goth would have somebody her own size to contend with. I still don't understand why the goth brought it on, whether it was because I was wearing a flannel shirt or because I was still smaller than her. I tried asking her to stop shoving me, I even tried to look psycho by screaming, thrashing, evertything but drool. She had a great view of the stage, hell, she was right beside me! Maybe she was just drunk I remember her putting a beer can down on the stage. I remember she was smoking cuz I was watching for her to burn my hand. But, no, she had to sink her nails into my fingers to try and pry me away. I have no idea how many times I hit her before my friend grabbed my arm. He left my other arm free to fend off attack, but I just used it to continue dishing out the punishment. He grabbed the other arm when he saw she wasn't fighting back, so then I started kicking her. I always wonder why she did it. Why, also, did I lose control? I wish I could tell her that I didn't mean to. >sigh< The point of this stupid story, is that as my friend dragged me away, I shouted "Why did she do that to me?" and somebody I didn't know said, "We live for them, they mean more to us!" Suddenly, I had less right to love their music than this drunk girl who clawed and bit me? Because I wore a flannel? I had to get that off my chest, Itell that story occassionally as a joke. But I can't forget how some people mI knew called the next night to tell me how great i was, how this girl was bleeding all over the place. I made her bleed. They said she was alright later. I think I stapled her nose ring to her cheek (I think it's okay to laugh at that). Man, I rambled again! By the way, Paper Angel is different parts of me, though, not Glenys wholly. She's Maori, shy, and other parts... a couple of things I like... the name is the title to a story I'm writing. Gotta go, my fingers are freezing and my teeth are chattering! COLD here in KC!

First off, I'm gonna break tradition by being as short as possible. Second off, Angel, you a baby? :) I was 2 in '79.. and I'm the ripe old age of 19.. (gee, I can go off to war, but I can't drink.. lovely thought.) I'm sorry to hear that about your concert. I too am a My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult fan, and I think you're right. I hate to hear it when somebody starts talking about rights and worthiness and other crap like that. Unfortunately it's the music biz that does it. There have been many times when I like the out of the way bands for years, and then for some reason they get big. Everybody then thinks I've "jumped on the bandwagon" even though I was a fan for years before anyone knew of the band! Take KMFDM for example.. I liked them for long time, and then Juke-joint Jezebel got really popular.. It's really stupid that something so moronic like that can ruin the appreciation for a band. It seems TKK draws that.. I was on their mailing-list for a while, and the first time I said anything (coincidentally, about this same subject) I was labeled a pretentious bastard. And as a good friend once told me, Gothic isn't a way of life, it's a style of architecture. :) I hear you about the cold.. It's just as cold here in Illinois.

The way you were talking about 1983 I thought you were much older! Yay, I'm not the youngest! I am not embarrassed to admit that I had never listened to KMFDM until Juke-Joint, I tried Nihil out and really thought the rest of the album sounded processed, kinda like Chef Boyardee spaghetti sauce. I bet it's colder in Ill. I think we're supposed to be above freezing tomorrow. You in Ch.Ill or a burb? I used to stay in Donner's Grove and Chicago occassionally. My friend Cliff was in a band called Catherine up there and another friend stayed there in the summer.

Boy oh boy am I mad. I wrote out a fairly long post and my server shut off and I lost it and now I'm gonna have to try to remember... Oh, yeah, now I got it. Angel and Wolf, this punk/snob thing must be a common occurance. I was at a Danse Society show during my semester in Manchester and having a good time up front, taking the shoves in the pit as good natured fun, when suddenly this little goth girl is pushing me to the back, saying, "Get away, they'll kill you!" "Why?" I asked. She just gave my clothes a once over and a little sneer and dove back into the fray. Well, I had to thank her for her concern, but I was hurt too. I was as much of a punk as any of them. Just because I did it with a little Rock-a-billy accent, they were going to pound me? Feh! But on consideration, I can sympathize too. I can understand why a group wants to stay pure and keep out the posers. It used to be if I saw a guy or girl with spiky hair and a black leather jacket, I knew that we liked the same things and shared most of the same philosophies. But after punk became fashion and everybody was wearing it just to be "in," you couldn't tell if that guy with the purple buzz cut was a brother or just some frat lout. It's the same reason the riot grrl movment is so publicity shy. They don't want to be co-opted by MTV. They don't want JC Penny to come out with their "Riot Line" next spring. I know from previous posts that we'd feel the same if Bordertown was made into a TV series and became a hit. It wouldn't ours anymore. It would lose its specialness. I don't know what to do about this. It's a paradox. I wrote a song about the whole phenomenon a while ago, the chorus of which goes like this... "You won't know me by my clothes. They're no longer mine. They've turned my life into a product so I must now decline. You won't know me by my clothes. I've changed the secret sign. I hide my art, I hide my heart. You must know me by my mind." I guess in a perfect world, that would be the way to do it. But there are so many people in the world, and I can't read minds. How am I going to be able to pick out the Bordertown kids when I pass them on the street? Later.

Im not an amphibian!!!!!*smiles*At least Im not an angel made out of paper.Just kidding!

Froggy, you may not be an amphibian, but you're a little green. Good luck finding Rhydin.

You should be so lucky to be a paper angel too... (A secretive smile twists Angel's tattooed lips) Now, if you want to insult, I'll just tell Allicyn you were elf-bashing. (Angel's smile turns good-natured) See, now you know why I asked her name... No worries, pakeha, I'm not insulted, it is nice to be light-hearted after all that serious talk. It isn't as hard in some ways. Thanks, Web-Toes! And I hope the stars point the way to Rhydin for you, also.

Oh, Nathan, where are you? It's the week of the twenty third and we've had no more news about when the Terri Windling chat will be. The suspence is killing me.

Ok, it's the 23rd.... Where do I go and when? And please don't tell me it was this morning or I'll scream.

What they said cubed... Please give info!?

Hello? Terri? Nathan??? Are you out there? Did you get kidnapped by evil trolls? Enquiring minds want to know! And PLEASE don't reschedule for next week ... speaking of evil trolls, my employer wants their computer back and I'll be temporarily off-line by then. :-( Cammie

Er..ahh...sooooo what happened? Did we get rescheduled? If so just give me a time and date and I'll be there with bells on my toes and my eyes coaled.

Sorry about the format for the name at the top of the message, but the "Your Name" space has disappeared for some reason. I just see a black bar, what's with this? I looked at the source HTML and I don't know why it's doing this. Netscape must be acting up...

Speaking of HTML, here's a link to my page

Well, back to our discussion, as far as punk goes, My first show was a NOFX show (Yes, I'm young, only 16). And, even though we were packed in there really tight, I didn't have any of these problems you guys are talking about. These days, at least from what I've seen around here (which happens to be Wilmington, NC- not where you'd expect to find a bunch of punks) there's all sorts of people at punk shows. You've got the guys with mohawks in leather, skinheads, the trendies I call "Greenday punks", and all other sorts, even hippie-looking freaks like me, and we all seem, if not friendly, at least not hostile. Part of the reason may be that a lot of us, even though we look different, hang out together and think pretty much the same.

As for the names, I got the nickname "Ghost" from some guys I met at Hatteras surfing a couple of years ago. They said I was like a ghost cause I was so quiet. I guess that was back in my shy period. I never talked while we were out in the water and at night I'd go out in the dark beach and play my guitar by myself. I guess it seemed kind of anti-social, but I always met planty of people out on the beach.

Let's end with a quote, if I can remember it.

"...The good are always the merry, save by an evil chance/ and the merry love the fiddle and the merry love to dance."

-W. B. Yeats

Okay, the space for name is back!!! I don't know how or why, but it is.

I've got to go to bed so Santa will come [g]. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT!

Well, it's late Christmas eve, or early Christmas morning I suppose, though to my mind, Christmas doesn't start 'til you wake up. I just got back from a swingin' Hollywood Christmas party where where the main form of entertainment seemed to be staring at the TV with a beer in your hand while loud music plays in the background. When did it become part of the party to have the TV on. Does nobody know how to talk anymore? Arrgh!... On to better things, such as... Happy Holidays. I want to thank everyone who posts here in Bordertown. These discussions have been wonderful. Its so refreshing to be among such insightful, intelligent people. I look forward to continuing with you all in the new year. Peace. Nathan "NRL" Long.

My most sincere apologies folks. I just haven't had the time to do everything I've needed to do, much less get the chat set up.

Well all, I'm back! Merry belated holidays to y'all! :) Angel, I'm in Rockford, IL, which is about 60 miles west of the 'burbs, and about 90 from downtown Chicago. We're not technically a suburb (yet), but we're slowly working our way east. NRL, that song chorus was excellent! May I print that out and put it in my binder where I put poems, quotes and stories that I like? And I think you answered your own question: How will you know us bordertownies? Very simple: "You must know me by my mind." That's all that you can know us by, because that's the only thing that truly makes us unique. Once again, happy holidays, all, and Nathan, keep me posted! Don't worry about it.. we've all been busy, I'm sure, just as our GOH were probably also busy.. Just keep us posted and all will work itself out, I'm sure. hasta lasagne, and I'll catch you on the flipside. :)

Any of you boarder seekers from the Philly area? I just read something about a Philadelphia area concert promotion company named the Dancing Ferret. Does anyone have any info on these people. Is Philly the secret location of SoHo? I tried their web site but it was down. I'm quite curious now.

Nathan, when-ever the chat comes together is fine. Just keep us in the loop. Wolf, thank you very much for your compliment. You may certainly clip the lines. I would be honored. I'm glad they seem to get across what I wanted to say. Boogle, this is intriguing news indeed. I'd be interested to hear whatever you find out. No rant tonight. Post holiday blahs. I'm sure the fire will return with the dawning of the new year. G'night.

Hi All! I've been lurking off and on for about a month now, happy to just read the interesting posts. But after some of the stuff from the last couple of weeks (that I've only just now been able to catch up on - I lost my network connection 12/15) I just had to post. Its wonderful for me to find others who've entered this world and have also felt at home. Anyways, I just felt that I ought to say thanks for all the interesting posts. See ya!

Well the Dancing Ferret page is back up. There isn't any references to the boarder on the page. They appear to just be a goth/industrial concert company. Go figure. I'll e-mail them later and ask if there is someone working for them named Farrel Din. ;)

NRL, thanks for the permission.. always better to have it than not. :) Also, thanks for the .jpg.. is that your own work? I liked it.. He makes it very obvious that he's a true blood, doesn't he? :) now if only my b-town self caricatures were that good, I'd have something to send y'all back.. c'est la vie.. :) holiday blahs? Don't I know it.. well, happy new year to y'all! May it be just as strange and fun as the last!

Techwolf, yay! You got it. I have such a distrust for this technology. I was sure I'd sent that drawing to the ether never to be seen again. Yes I drew it. Should have said so in the E-mail. Oops. Glad you liked it. Later.

Tennekoe! Hope you had fun celebrating the various holidays. Nice to meet you, Just John, you don't have to be so quiet, you little voyeur, you. We aren't going to make fun... unless we become fond of you. Heavens forfend if that were to happen ;>

Heya, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! =) May all things be marvelous and magickal this year for all whose hearts and spirits live near the Border. NRL, I got your drawing too. Very spiff, packed a *lot* of personality into such a 'straightforward' image. Well, if you'll all excuse me, I think someone's just mistaken our firecrackers for the kwoon incense! (And did I ever thank you for the well-wishes, Paper Angel? Xiexie and arigato!)

Has anyone else found that reading "Elsewhere", by Will Shetterly, becomes addictive? I have gotten it out from the library about 50 times, or so. I would love to read all the other Bordertown books, but we don't have any in the library here. If anyone knows where I can get 'em, Just E-Mail me. ~Courtney~ P.S.~ Would it be copying if I wrote a story about The Borderlands, and The Border, but came up with my own characters?

Coutney, yes reading Elsewhere and all the other Bordertown books (except Life on the Border, which I cannot find and have never read :-( )is addictive. All mine are the Tor paperbacks and are falling apart. And, by the way, right now we are trying to get permission from Terri Windling to write Bordertown fan fiction.

Hi again! (Maybe this BBS should post a warning: Posting May Become Addictive...) Well, I just wanted to wish everyone a happy new year (what year is it, anyway? 'Fraid the Timex was the first victim of the Border, way back when....) Anyways, thanks for the kind words, PA, its always nice to be noticed! See ya! PS - I have all the books so far (incl Life) but they're back in Texas. When I get back there in May, I'd be happy to lend them out after receiving properly worded promises backed by the power of magic, of course.

Hi folks, I've read all the B-town books but Double Feature and I was wondeering does that have only one revised story about B-town in it or is it full of stories? Thanks Tall One

TallOne, as far as I can tell, it has multiple stories. I've never read the book, so would someone please confirm this for me? Courtney, yes.. Elsewhere is very addictive. On a trip to California one year, at a dollar store, I saw Elsewhere (hardback) for $1.00 and for some reason, it struck me. I got it, and the rest, as they say, is history. I've (re)read it over 100 times now, and then I found the sequel NeverNever (hardback) at my local library for $1.00 as well.. I then started to voraciously read and reread them both.. And the hunt still continues.. They continue to be my favorites, the Shetterly books, and Ron is my favorite character, because it's like Will took my life and put it in the books as Ron. All of it. It's scary the way they do that. :) As far as writing stories about Btown goes, hold off on them until we get official permission. We've been having lots of discussion about them that you missed (go back and read the older posts, if you wish) We're all waiting on pins and needles for the official word. Just John, they say silence is golden, but not necessarily in this case. As a good friend told me, "Speak up and make sure your voice is heard." I always like to hear from border people like myself, so don't be shy.. Claris, it's good to see you again! Haven't seen you in a while.. you better stick around for a while.. :) And now, without further adieu, I think a story is out there begging to be written. till next we meet...

Thanks aren't neccesary Claris! Courtney and Techie: Only one B'Town story, a rewrite of Danceland. The rest are many different stories about a variety of things. I haven't had time to read it thuroughly. Tennekoe to John, Courtney, and Tall One! Nice to see you back, and it is always great to see a new face. Hey, NATHAN, once we figure out the fanfic stuff, I'd like to know the stance on art... (Angel shakes her head mournfully, muttering, 'I know, I know, I'm trying to take a mile before I even know if I get the inch.')

Claris, I went to your page and took a peek at the elf-lass with the hand- cannon. Very nice. She's got plenty of personality herself. Now, about this fan-fic thing. I'm going to give the powers that be another week and then I'm going to do something drastic. I want to share (show-off) my story in the worst way, and I think I've come up with a way around the posting=publishing dilemma. Fair warning. Happy New Year, everybody. G'night.

WooHoo! More power to ya, NRL, sounds like something to look forward to! Also- Claris, would you mind sharing your web page's address? It sounds like you've got some interesting art happening there... BTW, has anyone heard anything new on The Essential Bordertown, or on that fabled Chat, for that matter? See ya!

Thanks, NRL...now, we're all waiting for your solution to the publishing question...have at it! ;) JustJohn, by all means have a look at my base page or go directly to the art section and by all means let me know what you think. I always need feedback. OK, I'm going to go recover from our New Year's party last night...Mingtian jian!

OK, I messed up, get ONE SYLLABLE wrong and you get demons *everywhere*. Here's the art section for real this time. Pbbbththth!!!

Very nice page Claris, ghost's is nice too. Makes me wish I knew how to do that kind of magic... It frightens me somewhat, and awes for certain, what you tech minded people can do...! Nice art,btw, Claris. Ah, well, in case any of the newer people need it, the soap box is over there in the corner, feel free to jump up and rant or cry or just sit. I should warn you, if you are sitting on the box and somebody is making a bee-line for it, with a grim set to their jaw, you'd do best to move!

Hi everyone. I happened on this BBS and was very intrigued. You see, my writting partner and I put together a piece in the Bordertown world, and with the last book coming out it would appear we had lost our chance to get it to the people who would enjoy it. Then, there you were. So, Nathan, I’d like to encourage you to continue working on getting us all permission to share our creative efforts through the BBS. I do have one question though-- what about copyright? Not that of Ms. Windling and her collective of talented authors, but our own? (I realize that this may have already been covered and I missed it in my quick skim of all your correspondences, but, can any one answer it or tell me where in the above posts to look for it?) Dream carefully-- but dream.

Angel, Tech is my hated specialty.. that's why I left for the border, partly, in the first place.. but even here, I can't seem to get away from it.. *sigh*.. Hrmm.. I wonder if Milo Chevrolet needs any help.. I hate the work, but it's good pay. Oh well.. Anyways.. let's see if I can get this silly thing to work, it's been a long time since I've done any html from memory.. TechWolf's Lair: (and only really complete page) = Go to my Lair! Welcome to the Borderlands: (my page dedicated to the border, naturally at SoHo in Geocities, still awaiting finishing..) Go to my B-town page that sorta bites at the moment.. Scott's Personal Freedom Page! (My page dedicated to freedom, and anything against Big Brother..) Bites too, right now, but soon to be much better.. Go to the Freedom Page! Now, you'll be saying to yourself, what kind of person is this TechWolf character if he has *3* Pages? Well, I'll tell you.. A strange goofy person with too much free time on his hands.. ;) (but most of you already *knew* that, didn't you?) Anyways, everyone else has been plugging their pages from here to walla walla, so I thought I'd add my two bits.. (can't blame a guy for trying.. ;) Anyways, I'm still here, and a big hello and a tip of my top hat to all the new peoples!

Hello folks. Just kinda felt the felt the need to post, so here I am. Well, TechWolf, I have to say you hit the nail on the head for why *I* love _Elsewhere_ so much when you described how you felt about it. Besides just the general way Ron thinks and feels, I seem to have his knack for saying something incredibly stupid, inconsiderate, or rude and then not being able to let anyone know that I didn't really mean it (Ex: The first time he meets Sai). ::Scratches head and tries to remember what else he was gonna say:: Thanks for the mention of my page Angel, though it really shouldn't be mentioned in the same place as big cool ones like those belonging to TechWolf and Claris. And Last, But Not Least, a Big Welcome to all of the new folks. I hope you all find this BBS as enjoyable as I have.

Techwolf, checked out your page, but couldn't get to any of the good parts. Both the Borderland page and your writing page were inaccesable. (sheesh, how do you spell that word?) Anadara and Just John and all, welcome home. Anadara, I'm not sure I understood your question. If you mean how do you copyright something, that's easy. Put a "c" with a circle around it on your work and the law says it's copyrighted. If you mean to ask whether putting a copyright on our fan-fic will protect us from the wrath of Windling, no it will not, because if we write something in her world and try to publish it, we are infringing on HER copyright. The central question to all this fan-fic business is whether posting to a public message board equals publishing. I can see why it would. You are broadcasting to a wide public without the permission of the original authors. Imagine how you would feel if someone started using you as an on-going character in stories they were posting on the net and their version of you was doing things you wouldn't do or was badly written. You wouldn't care if they were making money from it or not. It would still feel like a violation. On the other hand, as a guy who has written a Borderland story himself, I can see the other side of the coin too. No one who writes fan-fic intends any harm to the original authors. We are, in their way, praising them and feel put out that the authors would be so unapreciative that they wouldn't let us show our homages to the world. Writing is one of the most concrete ways of getting into the original world. It helps you solidify it and your fantasies of being there. It helps continue the experience after you've read all the books fifty times. It's frustrating not to be able to share those continuations with others who also want to visit that world, but if the original authors say no, you should respect their wishes. The thing is, they can only say no to so much. They can tell us not to post and not to publish, but there is no law in the world that forbids me from showing anything I've written to my friends one friend at a time. It's less convienient, but good things are always more work. Anyhow, I'm still going to give Nathan a little longer to respond to all this, then... Zero Hour. G'night all.

NRL, thanks for pointing that out.. The writing page and borderlands page is one and the same, and it's on a different server (geocities) and it appears that geocities is down. At this point in time, there won't be much of anything related to the border on that page (somewhere between nil and none) until the legalities have been worked out. It's strange, because it worked fine last night.. Oh well.. geocities should be up again, soon (I hope.) and even more so, hopefully with *NEW* stuff.. (And I thought it would be cute to put a Borderlands page in the SoHo neighborhood.. silly me.. :) Also, I know what you mean and how you feel about this writing.. That was probably the most understandable, clearly put argument (for both sides, even!) that I've ever heard. If nothing else, it helped me understand partially where the authors are coming from.. If I wrote a series, I'd want to make sure that if other people were going to use it, they'd be writing *good* stuff about it.. (maybe authors of really popular series should put out writing guides for their worlds explaining how it works? Say, like the money thing in the Border? ;) anyways.. thanks for the pointers, and for the good explanation of the situation.. adios for now!

I tried this earlier and the message was wiped out! So, once more with less feeling and fewer words! NRL: For someone who didn't understand the question, you sure answered it in spades. Thanks. And, as a 31 year old Los Angeles punk, I'd just like to say you're _not_ an old man! Frog: If you want to see Escrima in action, try a Steven Seagal movie. I believe "Hard to Kill" has a scene in a pool hall where Seagal turns cues into Escrima. Anyone know if I got the movie right? Claris and anyone else taking NRL's advise on "Just Do(ing) It": When you find your critic, the one person who will tell you the brutal truth about your work, listen to him/her. I know that that kind of truth can be brusing to the ego of a budding author, but it is frusterating to be asked for your opinion and then not listened to. I'm not saying that your critic will always be right, just that if you find someone willing to give you that kind of truth, listen-- you might learn something. (Okay I'll get off the soap box now.) Take care all.

Anadara, wow, another Bordertowner from LA. I thought I was the only one. It's good to hear from someone from the neighborhood. Now, tell me, since you know the area, where you think the border touches LA. It might have been Melrose fifteen or twenty years ago, but that's long gone now. I think that if you take a wrong turn in the Silverlake hills late on a foggy evening you'll find yourself driving down Ho street instead of Sunset when you hit the flats.(Sorry to all non-Angelenos, that probably sounded like complete gibberish.) Hmmm, I see that you went back and read ALL the posts. No, we're not old. We're chronologically challenged. And since you brought up writing again, you reminded me of a rule of thumb that has stood me in good stead lo these many years. When you show your work to a bunch of people and you get a different criticism from each person, it often doesn't mean that much. People all have their personal pet peeves. It's when you get the same criticism from two or three people that you know you have a problem to fix.... Well, Zero Hour gets closer and closer. My will power is fading fast. Watch this space. G'night all.

NRL, I think I've lead you astray. ::Wink:: I haven't been in LA for, oh, about eight years now, and at the time I was a denizen of that area I hadn't head of the B'town books. (I was only introduced to them in the last few years.) So, while I was never _looking_ for the Border, I do have memories of places where I _know_ it touches-- Echo Park being one. As I remember, this area is a subsection of the Silverlake District. So, I agree, definitely in those hills...Especially on a late (or would that be early?) foggy night under a full moon...There were energies about that we never quite got it together enough to follow...But looking back now I'm sure that if we'd've followed our instinct instead of our reason, I'd be in B'town now...The hills around Simi Valley are another (and the one I spent the most time in). I lived in Thousand Oakes and we often went trekking through the hills between Simi and TO. There were times when I swear we heard music out where there was no one...no one we could locate anyway...And occasionally we'd come across a neighborhood out there in the middle of nowhere...and... well...there was something about it...::shrug::...I think you get the idea. (My apologies added to NRL's to all the non-Angelenos out there). Oh, and for the record, I even read the archived posts. I felt that was a good way to get to know you all a little better. : ) And _I_ prefer to think of myself as a fine wine which has been and will continue to be improved by age. : ) One last thing-- NRL every time I see "Zero Hour" in your posts I giggle. Are you aware of DC Comics' "Zero Hour" storyline from ...last year (I think)? Take care all-- enjoy your weekend.

(Angel steps into the room, brushing snow out of her hair and stomping her feet. The icy remnants of crushed snow scatter to those nearest and Angel shrugs apologies all 'round.) I walked out a week ago, into balmy breezes and a lovely saffron sun. The land stole several days out of spring's heather cap... and now everything's shit. Walk outside and take a breath and my damn nose freezes shut! Going a little further I find my fingers won't talk to me any more. Gray sky, gray landscape, grr! Weather like this turns my thoughts to running on the beach, eating pippies, and never seeing snow!!! EVER!!! Except on the mountain tops!!! Where it belongs!!! (Stamping feet and growling in a language that smacks of polynesia.) By and by, yes to you, NRL. You make everybody's case clear. Tennekoe again to everybody. I'd be more direct but I need to go back out. Just needed the warmth of your smiles more than the fire at our fingertips at this moment.

Anadara, yes you lead me astray. Ah well, I really had hoped I wasn't the only Bordertowner in LA. Anyhow, yes, you knew exactly where I meant. The Sliverlake hills really don't feel like part of LA at all. I vaguely remember the title ZERO HOUR, but can't remember anything about the story. I worked in a comic book store for four years and when I got out I was heartily sick of the thngs and haven't kept up with them since. Except for LOVE AND ROCKETS, my favorite..... Well, Nathan, you're too late. I've done it. I've taken the step that once taken can not be taken back. I have (gasp-shock-horror!) shown my story to SOMEONE ELSE! This morning I mailed a copy of my Bordertown story to Angel and I expect the silver-suits to be knocking on my door at any minute. I'm sorry to dissapoint anyone who was expecting some massive cyber-trick, but this was the entirety of my grand circumvention. Not very thrilling but it just might work. We are not allowed to post or publish, but there is no law that can keep me from showing ANYTHING I write to a friend. So, all my friends out there may e-mail me their mailing addresses and I will send them, free (so that the taint of commerce does not allow anyone to find a legal chink in my armor) my story. Of course, if I get more than ten or fifteen requests I'm going to have to re-think this, but we're a pretty select little bunch and I don't think that'll be a problem. Maybe also you could pass the story around to each other. Well, that was tempest in a tea-pot wasn't it. All that build up and I bet no-one says a thing.... Angel, you wouldn't like Paradice if you lived here. I'm a back east boy in Lotus Land and I long for snow and leaves that change color and hot tea on a cold morning and sitting on the radiator next to a frost encrusted window and fireplaces and a chance to where my big black coat more often. In fact, one of the things that I like about the Bordertown books so much is the discriptions in some of the stories of warm apartments and hot cups of tea in cold weather. Its another reason Bordertown reminds me of home. G'night, all.

It's snowed. Last time I saw snow like this was way back in '81 or so. That's about an inch or 2 of snow. This is Texas -- where the standard reaction to snow is "Say, what's that there white stuff?" I always thought of B-town as a fairly warm place -- I suppose because I never liked cold that much. I get cold so easily it's insane -- just ask anyone who's had me lay hands on 'em during the winter. :> My dream is the opposite of yours, NRL -- I'm gonna go move out to San Francisco where they've got fires, floods, riots, earthquakes, but NO SNOW! Besides, I like the atmosphere -- it's kinda like Bordertown, now that I come to think of it. (Only been a few times, but I never forgot it) Uhm... anyhoo, that's my email addy up there if you'll send me a copy of your fic? Thanks, and now I"m off to try and thaw out by a nice fire.

Hi all...I'm frozen too. Not that the University cared to close or anything... I think the above posts illustrate why we all like Bordertown so much... it's everything we ever wanted a place to be. =) Er, BTW, I've written a poem. Sorry, sometimes I just do that. It's an affliction or something. It is definitely B-Town inspired but I didn't use any actual names, etc., so I'm not worried about legalities. At any rate, I didn't polish the meter as much as I usually would, as it's meant to be sung-spoken. Preferably by someone with a thick Gaelic accent, or even Cymric. Anyway, if anyone would like to see it I'm working on posting it right now. Thought I shouldn't take up bandwith here so you can view it at my site. Wrote it in the middle of the night with the lights off. As usual. ^_^

I like the poem Claris. The mention of hobs reminded me of something I've been wondering about lately: in Faery the way it's described in the Bordertown books, are there any other fey species besides elves? What does everybody else think?

TLO, San Francisco may not have snow, but the winter I spent there was as cold as any I ever spent back in Pennsylvania. This was because most of the old Victorian houses that have been cut up for low rent housing that I lived in were built before there was central heating. The one flat I lived in had one gas heater in the living room, that was it. The other rooms had no heat. It's also a damp cold that seeps into your bones. I'd love to live in SF again, it is truely about as close to the border as you can get in the world, but I'd like to be rich enough to afford real heat first.... Um, also, I know I'm probably being paranoid, but I'd rather not send my story via computer at all. I just don't know what constitutes posting and what the laws are, so I'd as soon keep it as low tech as possible. If you can possibly send me your mailing address I'd feel better.... Somebody please tell me that's pointless and I shouldn't worry about it. Claris, your poem had a lovely haunting feel to it. Thank you. G'night all. It's been a long, long day.

Let's see.. gotta work my way down the list of people: TLO, good to see you again.. been a while, hasn't it? Claris, I wouldn't worry about it.. a lot of us seem to write poetry now and then.. I know I do, that's why I came to the border anyways: to write. (BTW, my writing page actually has writing on it now! What a concept!) I love the poem, (especially since I can do a thick Gaelic accent well.. ;) "for ours is the city built on starlight and shade." If that doesn't say it all right there, I don't know what does.. And to be honest, I think a little of the Border is in every major city.. "(this reporter found it by heading towards the ruins of Detroit.)" that's from the GNN sheet from "Life." I'm sure most of you remember that.. Anyways, I live in Northern Illinois, (cold here, too) and so, everytime I head for Downtown Chicago, I get a feeling of it, and when I head up to Madison, Wisconsin, up to the campus of UWM, I get it there too.. I think B-town is more of a state of mind than a physical place.. (not that I'm saying it's not physical, it's out there, and I'm gonna find it someday! :) but yeah.. B-town is anywhere you make it, anyplace where you feel that magic..

anyways, since we're all talking about old man winter.. It's in the single digits here, with wind chill in the teens and twenties below.. great place, huh? "We are the music-makers, we are the dreamers of dreams.." -- Arther O'Shaughnessy

(Okay, I'm overcoming my inbred oriental reticence to post this.) Does anyone (and don't everyone shout all at once) want a copy of Borderland? I've got a copy of my own and a friend of mine sent me another copy (the first edition) because he read it and didn't like it (can you believe it?). So anyway, I was going to keep both copies but.... well greed is not becoming so I am putting it up for adoption. I'm planning to keep the second edition copy because I like the cover better (yes I'm shallow enough to do that kind of thing) so if anyone is interested just email me. Speaking of "old" curmudgeons, am I the oldest person on the Border here? Any other "old" farts out there over 30? ;-) I must say that reading your posts remind me of when I was a "misfit" who couldn't get a date to save her life. I think I'm one of the few women my age who didn't go to the prom. It seems funny now though to remember how badly I failed at trying to fit in. I finally gave up fitting in at 16 and haven't looked back since. So yeah, be true to yourselves. Five years from now you'll be happy and all the losers who laughed at you will still be desperately trying to fit in with all the other so-called normal people. Who needs that kind of life when there are so many other more fun things to do? Keep that stainless steel soapbox polished. May (freezing in her viciously air-conditioned office in Hawaii)

Looks like I got dibs.. Borderland is the only one I haven't been able to find, get, or read. I want! :) we can discuss over email.. whatever.. please, I'll ask nicely.. Please? :) And I must admit, going to the "prom" wasn't that big of a deal.. it seems like it means so much if you don't have it.. I ended up going stag to mine, because my date had to ditch at the last minute.. I didn't want to go, but no one would leave me alone until I agreed.. It was the worst $30 I ever spent, too.. ;) (TechWolf ducks from the smacks and screams of "$30! You got off cheap!!") Although I must admit, I agree with your idealogy.. I like to say it this way: "The ones who say they're normal are not, and anything that's left that gets called crazy, etc, is the norm." or in another way, "anyone who says they're normal is not healthy. It's all us crazy people who are." anyways.. Borderland is the only one I haven't gotten a hold of somehow, and I would desperately like it.. (I'm not groveling yet, am I?)

On a side note, of curiosity or interest: I live about 15 minutes away from Beloit, home of Beloit College, where Emma Bull and Will Shetterly met (Look on the biography pages if ya don't believe me.. ;) Today, when I went into a new used bookstore and picked up Shetterly's book "Witchblood," the lady said, Shetterly? Oh yeah, I know his wife.. She grew up across the street from me in Roscoe, IL.. (TW's jaw starts to drop and drool..) Apparently I'm living right in the middle of thier old college stomping grounds.. Neat or what?

Well, I guess the wolf gets it since he replied first.. Does everyone think he groveled sufficiently or should I hold out for more? ;-) BTW, we're not the crazy ones--we're going sane in a crazy world (as the Tick so poetically phrases it). --May

By all means May, hold out for more. _I_ don't think he groveled at all! (Good thing it's not my book, huh, TW?) ::wink::

Hi all, Well I finally got ahold of the man who owns the Dancing Ferret. And it appears to be a coincidence. From what I could gather his last name is apparently Ferret. An x-girlfriend had shown him one of the Boarderland books, so he had heard of them. But that was after the creation of the company. So now my hopes have been dashed again. The boarder isn't in Philadelphia. :(

May, that was my point.. it's all a matter of terminology. According to "thier" terminology, we're the "crazy" ones, and they're "normal." but the definitions are reversed.. it's all a matter of point of view and perspective.. and yes, we are all going sane in a crazy world.. at least us B-towners, maybe..

Anadara, I suppose I should be glad it's not your book, but then again, I have much more powers of groveling in reserve.. ::wink:: Let's see.. begging and bowing are good.. so's monetary gifts, or say, that autographed copy of Weird Al's "Bad Hair Day.." hrmm.. anyways..

TechWolf returns to his groveling.. "Please send me the book! I'll cook, I'll clean, I'll even do Windows!! (As long as they're not 95..) Shall I shave your dog or clean radioactive waste, or maybe even give up my squat? Ah! I know.. I shall name my first born after you!" Lemme know when the groveling starts to get annoying.. ;)

Well, that'll teach me to taunt wolves (Tech or other wise!)

Well I don't know about you Anadara but any time someone offers to name their first born after me the "Eeeeuuuwww!" reflex kicks in followed by "Hey, it wasn't my fault!" ;-) How's about I let the wolf clean the barf one of my four (yes four) cats left on my bed this morning? (damn thing soaked right through the futon) Oh, and take me out dancing . I think that would be fair. Doesn't have to be the Ferret since boogl has ascertained that its not in Philly (too far for me to walk from Hawaii any way). There's a guy named Cat on the Boiled in Lead newgroup that manages a club up in Maine that he refers to as the Dancing Ferret but I never asked if that was the real name.

(Angel walks in and looking about at the rafters, slips a note into NRL's hands she whispers criptically, "The blue dog moos in the pasture at midnight.") I don't know you, May, but let me speak on Techie's behalf. He's a good, hard-working, hones-- mm, maybe not-- thoughtful guy. And he's been there when I needed him. Whatta pal, for somebody I've never really seen, he's a keeper! Andara, good thing it *wasn't* your book, the poor guy would have splinters in his toungue after you got done making him lick the floors clean! You should be ashamed. ;) (Angel smiles at Techie and shakes her head ruefully, 'Cute little pakeha, too.')

Well, I'll take that as a cue to stop with the begging and groveling.. It's not something I'm proud of, anyways.. :) And May, if I ever get out Hawaii way, you got yourself a dance date! Anadara, most people's fatal flaw is in underestimating me.. Looks like you learned that firsthand.. ::wink:: Angel, thanks fer the kind words, although I'm not sure what to make of that honesty remark.. :P but thanks for the other kind words.. but you know, you guys ain't so bad yourselves.. Makes me wish I could get to 'cons more often so I could maybe get in contact with more townies like us.. oh well. anyways.. enough of the idle chitchat.. I'm starting to feel extremely guilty about all this bandwidth I'm wasting, like I need to start some major discussion or something.. ;) hrmm.. "Welcome to Coffee talk, where we talk about dogs, daughters, and coffee.. Here's a topic: people park in driveways and drive on parkways. Discuss amongst yourselves.." (TechWolf slinks off through the snow in the middle of the night giggling to himself..)

Snail mail? Oh well... I suppose I can contain myself long enough to wait. :) All right -- I'll give you the address. And Techwolf...NO FAIR! (I'm VERY good at puppydog eyes... Ummm...forget I cackled, K? But I'll be your very best friend forever and ever and ever and ever if you'll let me read it. Pweease? (I'm not gonna mention that when I pull that line out, people usually give me horrified looks and start backing away. I wonder if it's because I ate something noxious? :) Or is it the chlorine stench? I'm a shwimmer, and I shwim forever and ever. Four years to be exact -- 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 10 months... whoa. That's way too long. I'm a masochist, y'see -- I always wonder why I'm doing this, but by the end of practice, I remember why for about 5 seconds. :) It's great to be good at something for once. Ooh... I've been babbling again, haven't I? Oops. So SF can be cold, huh? Hrm... I hope the dorms are warmer than that, or I'll be the typical starving, freezing artiste. :) Eternal summer, whither art thou, o loveliest heat? ANd another thing TW -- don't worry about the wasted bandwidth -- it lets us get to know each other. Coffee... I'd settle for a good strong cup of hot chocolate, bittersweet as lost loves... I think I'll go get myself a cup.